• Davieboy

    Superbly put. Should be on the front page of every newspaper. Bravo!

  • http://www.raymondcook.net Ray Cook

    Well, there you go, genocide against Jews is an understandable response to ‘stealing land’.

    Sort of confirms what I said about the current narrative.

    On stealing land? Jews BOUGHT land legally from the Ottomans and then, after a series of international legally ratified resolutions (League of Nations, San Remo, United Nations) was confirmed and ratified as a legal entity. So I don’t know what was stolen apart from a few disputed 10’s of square miles on the West Bank.

    You don’t seem to understand what Islamist means. Let me help you. It means radical jihadist Islam.

    It’s the Gazans beating the Israelis with their sticks of dynamite and rockets which caused Israel to react by sealing off the Strip, not the other way round.. When The Israelis left there was no blockade by sea and no embargo and they left behind millions of dollars of agricultural equipment which was then trashed.

    If the embargo is hurting Gaza so much, why does Hamas now ban imports from Israel (unsuccessfully)? And, at the same time, the world expects Israel to help Gaza with its exports – which it still does.

    You may think that it is perverse to be both persecuting (in your terms) and helping, but surely, persecution, especially of a Nazi nature, would not require Israel to do anything to help a single Gazan or Palestinian. The fact that it does daily does not appear to penetrate your cognitive dissonance with regard to Jews in Israel.

    And finally, you reveal yourself as a ‘Zionist’ influence believer. You, of course, mean Jewish. We control the media, of course, which is why you perversely believe that the media somehow are pro-Israel. In your world I would guess that not a word of good is permissible about Israelis, especially of the Jewish kind, as that would spoil the plot. Anything reported that is patently good has to be part of a Zionist conspiracy to pervert the truth.

    And you wonder why Mr Ward’s words have created such a reaction.

  • Olonam

    This story is not reported in any American media I’ve seen or read. I also read Melanie Phillips blog about David Ward’s remarks. And the vicious racist anti Semitic cartoon that is defended as “robust.” Then I read about about a conference presided over by two anti Israel British Jews in which Israel’s defenders are routinely booed and heckled. Yes, there’s plenty of American leftist anti Zionism, but this doesn’t permeate to the Congress and any TV networks l listen to and I listen to everything including Al Jazeera English. For those of you who have courage and strength, keep fighting. Good luck to British Jews. It sounds horrendous on your side of the Atlantic.

  • richardarmbach

    Ray I don’t want to get into an argument about 1948, but you say there has been no stealing of land. Hundreds of thousands of Arabs who left what is now Israel during the 48 war ( and I don’t want to get into an argument why either it’s irrelevant ) left behind land and other property. What happened to that property ?

  • http://www.raymondcook.net Ray Cook

    Hi Richard thanks for commenting. I don’t know every detail of what happened to property. Abandoned villages were often erased and homes in major cities were appropriated by the state. Is that stealing? In war refugees leave, for whatever reason, and what they leave behind is appropriated. If there were a peace treaty it is feasible that there could be compensation. In 1945 millions of ethnic Germans left what is now Poland and their property was appropriated. Poles lost land and property to the Russians in the East. In 1947 millions of Indians moved from or to Pakistan as a result of conflict.

    To say Israel ‘stole’ implies a deliberate attempt to wrest land or property as state policy. You could, indeed, argue that in some cases property and land was effectively stolen. I’m not saying this is the case but a legal argument could be made and proper compensation sought, Remember almost 200,000 Arabs remained on their land and in their homes in Israel.

    But there are two points here worthy of note. When the Palestinians and their supporters speak of ‘stolen land’ they are not speaking of a house here a village there, they are speaking of ALL Israel. They argue that Israel is illegitimate and was stolen from the Palestinians, a people that did not exist in 1948.

    More important still is that you have not taken into account 850,000 Jews who were actually forced out of Arab countries, with a suitcase if they were lucky, only because they were Jews, and as revenge for the establishment of Israel.

    Whole communities, many of whom had existed centuries before the Arabs even arrived in North Africa and the Middle East, were deprived of citizenship, their business and properties confiscated and many were forced to sign documents stating they would never return or make claims against the state which was illegally expelling them, These countries include Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Syria, Libya, Lebanon and Iraq.

    This process took place over a period of about 10 years. Many of these forgotten Jewish refugees went to Israel, and, no doubt some lived on land or in property that was previously occupied by Arabs who were now refugees.

    Therefore, there was a kind of population transfer. Whereas a large proportion of both sides never wanted to leave their homeland, the Jewish refugees were settled in Israel or abroad and ceased to be refugees; the Arab refugees, however, have remained so because none of the countries they fled to or were expelled into would accept them as citizens or give them full rights, except Jordan. Many of them actually crossed into what is now the ‘West Bank’ then occupied by Jordan, or Gaza, occupied by Egypt. In other words, they remained within what they considered to be their homeland. So why are they still refugees, you may ask. But that’s a different subject.